Lender's response:
We will make you bankrupt
Criticising you for requesting justification and evidence for the the alleged size of the debt
Misc reasons for refusal to supply documentation
Responses to DPA SARNs
Six years/12 years
We will make you bankrupt
"If a settlement isn't forthcoming we will seek Abbey National's instructions with regard to the issue and service of a Statutory Demand in Bankruptcy."
Used by: Dibb Lupton Allsop (for Abbey National)
Response:
"I note that rather than provide evidence of your/your client's conduct in selling the security property and therefore proving the extent of the debt, you/Abbey National are threatening to issue a statutory demand. This will be defended and costs sought against you/Abbey National." (Note: If you receive this threat you must also prepare for it by reading the material in this link.)
Criticising you for requesting justification and evidence for the the alleged size of the debt
"Furthermore, I believe that several of the points raised by you have little relevance to the actual situation relating to this case and other points are being continually repeated. While I acknowledge that you may wish to be sure of your own position, it could be considered that the requesting of such replies could be deemed as attempts to distract us from taking matters forward and thus preventing further action being taken."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
"We note that you acknowledge that your failure to comply with our CPR requests and DPA requests for documents has protracted resolution of this matter."
Misc reasons for refusal to supply documentation
We have answered all your questions
"I firmly believe that all matters referred to by you in your previous correspondence have now been responded to fully and I would confirm that we will not enter into any further discussion on these subjects as they would purely be a reiteration of our previous repsonses."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
I note that you claim that you have answered all our requests for documents. However the following documents or requests for explanation/proof are still outstanding:
(then write full list of documents you have asked for that they have not supplied - regardless of their reason for not supplying them)
Refusal to supply mortgage deed 1
"there is no relevance to the fact that Abbey National did not retain the original mortgage deed and that the fact we have supplied a Land Registry copy is sufficient."
Response:
I note that you say "there is no relevance to the fact that Abbey National did not retain the original mortgage deed and that the Land Registry copy is sufficient". However, I do not agree with your view. Nor do English courts accept un-notarised copy documents as equal to originals. I would therefore like you to evidence the alleged debt by providing me with the original mortgage deed, and its associated terms and conditions, signed by myself and your staff member. Alternatively, you may be getting confused with the property's title deed. If so, please note that I asked for the mortgage deed.
Refusal to supply mortgage deed 2
When your property was sold the original mortgage deed passes to the new mortgagee as security for the monies loaned,it can under no circumstances be retained by the previous mortgagee. It is for this reason that we have had to apply to the land registry for a copy of the mortgage deed."
Response:
"You appear to be talking the title deed, not the mortgage deed. I did not ask for the title deed, which I would expect to pass to any new owner of the property. I asked for the mortgage deed and its associated terms and conditions. Please supply it at your earliest convenience.
Refusal to supply mortgage deed 3
"You have repeatedly requested a copy of the mortgage deed. I would reiterate that my colleagues have provided you with a copy of the mortgage deed document from our records. We have also confirmed how you are able to obtain further documentation should you require this of the property and it's title. However, for completeness I would confirm that the property is registered land and should you require any additional information this can be obtained directly from HM Land Registry."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
"It is iniquitous to expect me to search the Land Registry or to pay for a search of the Land Registry for documents you hold or should hold: specifically, a mortgage deed signed by myself and yourself and terms and conditions under which the mortgage was sold by you and bought by me."
Refusal to supply mortgage deed 4
"Are you denying you had the mortgage?"
Used by: Bradford & Bingley
Response:
Don't respond to the question. Just ask for the mortgage deed again.
We cannot supply documents
"In view of the time which has elapsed since your original mortgage application was made, we are unable to supply copies of any leaflets or literature that may have been displayed by the Halifax in its offices at that time. However you have been provided with a copy of your original mort application paperwork and I also enclose a copy of the terms and conditions by which the mortgage was governed for your information."
Used by:
Response:
I note that you claim you are unable to supply copies of marketing and explanatory documents pertaining to the mortgage that you/your client sold to me. Unfortunately I do need you to supply these documents in order to help you. Please contact me again when you have found this material.
The MIG/valuation/endowment is confidential
"We cannot supply you with a copy of the MIG/valuation/endowment because this document is part of a confidential agreement between us and a third party."
Used by:
Response:
I note that you claim I owe you this amount under a confidential agreement between you and a third party. However, the law does not allow you to take me to court for money that you claim I owe you under a confidential agreement between you and a third party. I also believe this claim constitutes harrassment and breach of the Civil Procedure Rules. (Note: Here's a useful post on how to start a harrassment claim)
Refusal to supply Mortgage Indemnity Guarantee
"The value of the MIG for you was that you were able to obtain a mortgage that you would not otherwise have obtained."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
"I insist on seeing the terms and conditions of the MIG because I bought this instrument on the understanding that it would recompense Halifax should the property be sold at a loss. Had I been made aware that I would still allegedly be liable for the debt I would have considered the premium I paid for the MIG to be a pure financial loss, and therefore of no value. Given that it would have been of no value, I would not have bought it.
While I am aware that some lenders claim the value of a MIG is that it enabled mortgages to be sold where otherwise they wouldn't have been, I was not desperate to own property at the time of the purchase and would not therefore have considered that the money I spent on the MIG premium to have been equal in value to the gain from being able to buy this particular mortgage.
Therefore, I insist that the MIG was missold to me either by misrepresentation of its alleged value or by omission of the full terms."
It is a block policy
"We cannot supply you with a copy of the MIG/valuation/endowment because this document is a block policy."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
I do not believe your claim that there is no individual record of the MIG that you mis-sold to me. If the reality is that you do not have a copy of the MIG agreement and the terms and conditions under which it was sold to me you appear to have kept astonishingly poor records of a financial instrument that you sold to me.
We charge you to see documents that prove our case
"We can request copies from our client of the remaining available documents (we require £20 per copy of every annual statement you require."
Used by: Dibb Lupton Allsop (for Abbey National)
Response:
I note that you or Abbey National is trying to charge me £20 per document in order to prove the alleged debt. I believe this to be a breach of Civil Procedure Rules and will seek costs against you or Abbey National over this should you or Abbey National bring this case to court. Please supply the documents at no charge or be required to produce them under the Disclosure rules later on. Should this be required I will seek costs against you and/or Abbey National under the Civil Procedure Rules, regardless of the outcome of the case.
You must agree beforehand settle in full before we will show you evidence
"However under these circumstances we have been instructed by our client that they will expect full repayment of the total outstanding balance of £24,169.44. No reduced settlement offer will be considered."
Used by: Dibb Lupton Allsop (for Abbey National)
Response:
I note that you or Abbey National is trying to avoid evidencing the debt in full unless I agree beforehand to pay the alleged debt in full. I do not agree to the alleged debt and therefore cannot agree to the debt before seeing strict proof of it. I will, however, give you my assessment of the debt after seeing strict proof of it. Should you prefer to take this alleged claim to court, I look forward to showing the court your attempt to manipulate prior agreement and seeing what the court makes of it from the point of view of costs.
The information you ask for is unnecessary
"the information we are requesting is extensive and unnecessary."
Used by:Dibb Lupton Alsop (for Abbey National)
Response:
I note that you consider the information I have asked for to be extensive and unnecessary. I disagree. It is necessary because I have put you and your client Abbey National to strict proof of the alleged debt. Please co-operate or be prepared to face a costs order regardless of the outcome should you choose to bring this unproven debt claim to court.
We do not have to supply notes of telephone calls, etc
"We do not have to supply notes of telephone calls, etc under the Data Protection Act."
Used by:Dibb Lupton Alsop (for Abbey)
Response:
With regard to your claim that you do not have to supply notes of telephone calls, etc under the Data Protection Act, you or your client will have to supply them under Disclosure rules should you choose to take this alleged debt claim to court. Therefore, I recommend that you save Abbey National the further embarrassment of having costs awarded against them under the Civil Procedure Rules, by supplying this requested material now.
Why we sent bailiffs/debt collectors to your home/work
"In response to your comments regarding our instructing Devon Investigations. I would advise you that due to the lack of progress made in obtaining information or assistance from you, a decision was taken to instruct these agents. Our aim was to establish contact and obtain details from you which you have so far refused to supply. Whilst I appreciate that you may wish to be clear of matters in your own minds, the Halifax also has to establish its own position and your refusal to co-operate with our requests in the past has obviously hindered this."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
I note that you have sent bailiffs/debt collectors to my house/work despite resisting my putting you to strict proof of the debt. I consider such visits to be harrassment and will seek the appropriate remedy against Halifax or yourselves.
We do not hold the valuer's/insurer's authority to release information in accordance with DPA 1988.
Response:
I note that you claim you do not hold valuer's/insurer's authority to release information in accordance with DPA 1988." You will, however, be required to release these valuations/documents under Disclosure rules if you choose to take this alleged debt to court. I recommend therefore that you adhere to the Civil Procedure Rules by releasing them now. If you do not I shall seek costs against you for any subsequent court case on the grounds that you did not abide by the Civil Procedure Rules.
Please state exactly what information you want under the Data Protection Act
Used by: National Home Loans/Paragon, Halifax
Response:
"With regard to your request that I state which information I want under the Data Protection Act, I want all information you hold on me that is covered by the Act. Note that if you exclude any material covered by the Data Protection Act, I will consider it a breach of the act and take appropriate action."
Please use the enclosed form to select which categories of information you require
Used by: Abbey National
Response:
"With regard to your request that I state which information I want under the Data Protection Act, I want all information you hold on me that is covered by the Act. I have crossed out your category selection boxes and written "All information held" on the form. Note that if you exclude any material covered by the Data Protection Act, I will consider it a breach of the act and take appropriate action.
We only have to supply relevant information under the Data Protection Act
"I note that you believe we are unwilling to supply you with all the information requested. However, I am sure you will appreciate and agree that under the DPA we are duty bound to release only info that has relevance to the requester. As the arrangements were made between Halifax and instructed 3rd parties, no direct relationship exists involving you and therefore to avoid breaching confidentiality rules we are unable to supply any further information to you."
Used by: Halifax
Response:
"The Data Protection Act does not prevent you supplying me any data at all. I believe you are misquoting the Data Protection Act to avoid supplying me with information that you would be required to supply under the Disclosure requirements should you take this matter to law. I will use the Disclosure requirements of the Civil Procedure Rules to require you to supply this information before any court hearing should you issue a claim. I will also ask for costs against you as a result of your non-compliance with Civil Procedure Rules."
What do you mean by processing logic?
"Eversheds write: 'I am unclear what you are asking for in relation to. You request a full explanation of the processing and processing logic used [in handling your data]. Which part of the Data Protection Act do you refer to?"
Used by: Eversheds (for Abbey National)
Response:
"7(1)d of the DPA states;
'Where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that
individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters
relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his
creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is
likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting
him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that
decision-taking.'"
We require evidence of ID
"We require evidence of identity"
Used by: National Home Loans/Paragon
Response:
"In response to your request for ID I have enclosed a Xerox of ID. I give you permission to use this as authentication of my ID, but I do not give you permission to keep a copy, unless you can tell me which part of the 1998 Data Protect Act allows you to do so; and I do not expect you to use this to slow down your reponse to my SARN."
At the same time write to the Information Commissioner (IC), and ask that they monitor the situation and advise you as to your rights, because you feel that your subject access rights are being breached by the hoops which NHL are asking you to jump through - especially if they have not explained where and how they intend to copy/store or 'process') your ID data. (Write to: The Information Commissioner
Wyckiffe House
Ware Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshre
SK9 5AF.)
We have 12 years to chase you for the MIG element of the debt
"In Global Finance v Kelvin Jones the court agreed that lenders have up to 12 years to pursue mortgage shortfall debt"
Used by:
Response: (Only valid if you made your last payment more than six years ago)
"That element of the shortfall debt that was protected by a MIG is a simple debt that must be recovered within six years if the courts are to be used to recover it."
We have 12 years to chase you for the non-MIG element of the mortgage debt
"In Global Finance v Kelvin Jones the court agreed that lenders have up to 12 years to pursue mortgage shortfall debt"
Used by:
Response: (Only valid if your mortgage was taken out before 1989)
"The reports I have read say that Kelvin Jones had a specific clause in his mortgage agreement which allowed the lender to chase for 12 years (because it turned the shortfall into specialty). However my mortgage was taken out before 1989 and did not contain such a clause (because such clauses came into being after the Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions)
Act of 1989). If this is not so, then I need you to supply a full copy of the deed - signed by me - in confirmation.
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